AROUND THE LEAGUE: WEEK ELEVEN

Jason Gregor
December 20 2010 10:58AM

Do you remember the wickedly awesome video game for Intellivision, Slap Shot: Super Pro Hockey? If not, the pic above illustrates the kick-ass graphics, and the advanced thinking of why the NHL should go to a 3-on-3 format before the shootout.

It was a great game in the early 1980s, and while at first glance it might not stack up to NHL 11, depending on your skills as a gamer, it could wear on you.

NHL 11 is like a sexy top-end draft pick. You expect immediate satisfaction and results, whereas super pro hockey looks more like a mid to late round pick that will take some time before you appreciate it for its simplicity.

The Toronto Maple Leafs made their annual trek out west last week, and when they stopped in Calgary and Edmonton the eastern media compared the future of the Leafs to the Oilers and Flames. "Would you rather have a rebuild like the Oilers or the Leafs", and "Which team's future looks better, the Leafs or Flames?"

 

Most seemed to be in agreement that on paper, and in the early stages on the ice,  the Oilers rebuild looked better, while fans were split on who's future looked brighter in Calgary and Toronto.

The Flames and Oilers own their first round pick this coming summer, while the Bruins own the Leafs courtesy of the Phil Kessel trade. In Edmonton, many fans are hoping for one more top-five pick to complete the rebuild, while Flames fans are contemplating trading Jarome Iginla and Mikka Kiprusoff for picks, get a top-five pick and start the rebuild.

In Toronto, Brian Burke remains adamant that his team can compete without a top pick, while the Canucks aren't even in the conversation because they are a Stanley Cup contender.

RIGHT WAY TO REBUILD?

Is there a blueprint for the perfect rebuild? I'd say there isn't one.

You can look at Chicago's rebuild that started in 2002 by drafting Duncan Keith and finished with Patrick Kane going first overall in 2007, or the Penguins five top-five picks from 2002-2006 and say that losing eventually allows you to win. It worked for them, but it hasn't generated the same success for other teams.

Tthe Islanders had nine top-ten picks from 1994-2000 and never got any better. They are in the midst of another run of top-ten picks and have yet to see any success. Columbus has had a top-ten pick in ten of the last eleven years, but they've only made the playoffs once. They picked 4th, 8th, 1st, 4th, 8th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 6th, 21st and 4th.  The Thrashers had four top-two picks in their first four drafts, 1999-2002, and that led to a measly one playoff berth in 2007.

Getting top-five picks can increase your chances of turning your franchise around, but if you don't draft the right players it won't matter.

In Edmonton, Oiler fans want another top-five pick, Flames fans are pondering what it would feel like to have their first ever top-five pick, while Leaf fans feel if their team doesn't improve, the Phil Kessel trade could do down as one of the most lopsided in NHL history with the Leafs surrendering two top-five picks.

DOES TOP FIVE EQUAL ELITE PLAYER?

 

Looking at the top scorers, goalies and defenders reveals that a team's odds are higher they will get an elite scorer, but it is shows that many of the top players in the game can be found outside of the top five picks.

The current top 30 scorers have a wide range of draft picks.

Sidney Crosby, Steven Stamkos and Alex Ovechkin were 1st overall.

Daniel Sedin, Eric Staal and Dany Heatley were 2nd overall picks.

Henrik Sedin, Jonathon Toews and Matt Duchene went 3rd while Nicklas Backstrom and Andrew Ladd went 4th.

The other 19 scorers were taken in a variety of spots.

FIRST ROUNDERS

Jeff Carter and Anze Kopitar 11th overall.
Jarome Iginla 12th.
Alex Semin 13th.
Ryan Getzlaf 19th.
Claude Giroux 22nd.
Mike Richards 22nd.
Corey Perry 28th.

OTHERS

Derek Roy, 2nd round, 32nd overall.
Loui Eriksson, 2nd round, 33rd overall.
Paul Stastny, 2nd round, 44th overall.
Brad Richards, 3rd round, 64th overall.
Milan Hejduk, 4th round, 87th overall.
Patrick Sharp, 3rd round, 95th overall. (Compensatory picks made 95th in 3rd round)
Pavel Datsyuk, 6th round, 171st overall.
Ryan Clowe, 6th round, 175th overall.
Henrik Zetterberg, 7th round, 210th overall.
Dustin Byfuglien, 8th round, 245th overall.
Martin St. Louis, not drafted.

D-MEN: STARS UNCOVERED LATE

In the past 20 years the only truly dominant D-men taken in the top-five were Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger and possibly Drew Doughty. Ed Jovanovski is a solid D-man, but I don't consider him a franchise D-man. Out of the current top 30 offensive D-men, only three were taken in the top-ten of the first round.

FIRST ROUNDERS

Jack Johnson, 3rd overall.
Joni Pitkanen, 4th overall.
Ryan Whitney, 5th overall.
Cam Fowler, 12th overall.
Sergei Gonchar, 14th overall.
Brent Seabrook, 14th overall.
Kevin Shattenkirk, 14th overall.
Erik Karlsson, 15th overall.
Brent Burns, 20th overall.
Niklas Kronwall, 29th overall.
 

THE REST

Jordan Leopold, 2nd round, 44th overall.
Nicklas Lidstrom, 3rd round, 53rd overall.
Duncan Keith, 2nd round, 54th overall.
Alex Goligoski, 2nd round, 61st overall.
Kris Letang, 3rd round, 62nd overall.
Alexander Edler, 3rd round, 91st overall.
Keith Yandle, 4th round, 105th overall.
Lubomir Visnovsky, 4th round, 118th overall.
James Wisniewski, 5th round, 156th overall.
Jean-Micheal Liles, 5th round, 159th overall.
Stephane Robidas, 7th round, 164th overall.
Marek Zidlicky, 6th round, 176th overall.
Tomas Kaberle, 8th round, 204th overall.
Tobias Enstrom, 8th round, 239th overall.
Dustin Byfuglien, 8th round, 245th.
Kimmo Timonen, 10th round, 250th overall.
Dan Girardi not drafted.
Mark Giordano not drafted.
Brian Rafalski not drafted.
Dan Boyle not drafted.

GOALIES: LATE BLOOMERS 
 

Even fewer elite goalies are drafted in the first round, and many of them are taken late in the draft. Out of the top twenty goalies only five were taken in the first round.

Marc-Andre Fleury, 1st overall.
Kari Lehtonen, 2nd overall.
Roberto Luongo, 4th overall.
Carey Price, 5th overall.
Cam Ward, 25th overall.

THE REST

Michal Neuvirth, 2nd round 34th overall.
Ondrej Pavelec, 2nd round, 41st overall.
Ilya Bryzgalov, 2nd round, 44th overall.
Corey Crawford, 2nd round, 52nd overall.
Jimmy Howard, 2nd round, 64th overall.
Jonathon Quick, 3rd round, 72nd overall.
Craig Anderson, 3rd round, 73rd overall.
Miikka Kiprusoff, 5th round, 116th overall.
Ryan Miller, 5th round, 138th overall.
Henrik Lundqvist, 7th round, 205th overall.
Tim Thomas, 9th round, 217th overall.
Tomas Vokoun, 9th round, 226th overall.
Jaroslav Halak, 9th round, 271st overall.
Nicklas Backstrom, not drafted.
Sergei Bobrovsky, not drafted.
Jonas Hiller, not drafted.
 

Note: JS Giguere was also a first rounder, 13th, in 1995 but he isn't in top 20.

If you want an elite scorer getting a top-three pick definitely helps, but if you need depth on the blueline or in goal you can draft those players outside the first round and still develop them into becoming solid NHLers. The list of teams that have multiple top-five picks, but never win, is longer than those with top-five picks that do win.

Another top-five pick should help the Oilers in the long run, but there is no guarantee it will, and if the current crop of kids continues to play well, and they end up with a top-ten pick instead they still should be okay if their scouting staff chooses the right player.

TOP FIVE PICKS IN FRANCHISE HISTORY

The Flames have never had a top-five pick. They've had the #6 three times, and only found one decent player in that slot; Cory Stillman in 1992. Daniel Tkaczuk and Rico Fata in 1997 and 1998 respectively were both busts and a major reason why the Flames missed the playoffs for seven straight seasons until their miraculous run to the Cup in 2004.

The Oilers have only had two top-five picks, Taylor Hall in 2010 and Jason Bonsignore in 1994. Hall looks like a player while Bonsignore was a bust. The Oilers have had decent success in the #6 slot, with Paul Coffey in 1980, Ryan Smyth in 1994 and Sam Gagner in 2007, while Boyd Devereaux and Steve Kelly never really panned out.

The Canucks have had thirteen top-five picks in franchise history, and have had more misses than hits. Dale Tallon (2nd overall, 1970), Jocelyn Guevremont (3rd, 1971), Don Lever (3rd 1972), Dennis Ververgaert (3rd, 1973), Jere Gillis (4th, 1977), Bill Derlago (4th, 1978), Rick Vaive (5th, 1979),  Jim Sandlak (4th, 1985), Trevor Linden (2nd, 1988), Petr Nedved (2nd, 1990), Bryan Allen (4th, 1998) and the Sedins (2nd and 3rd in 1999). 

Linden is revered in Vancouver, and is one of the truly great people in the game, but he wasn't a franchise player. Only the twins have turned into cornerstone pieces for the Canucks, and that's a big reason why they have yet to win a Cup.

In the modern era (1970-present) the Leafs have had six top-ten picks. Lanny McDonald (4th,1973), Gary Nylund (3rd, 1982), Al Iafrate (4th, 1984), Wendel Clark (1st, 1985), Scott Thornton (3rd, 1989) and Luke Schenn (5th, 2008).  Not bad choices, but four top-four picks in seven years never translated to being a dominant team.

RANDOM THOUGHTS 

  • Alex Ovechkin has become more of a playmaker this year, but he only has 12 goals, and the most surprising stat for Ovie is he only has TWO powerplay goals. In his first five years he's tallied 21, 16, 22, 19 and 13 on the PP. He is second in the league in PP assists with 12, but he needs to start shooting more on the man advantage. He is tied for 102nd in PP goals. Ouch.
     
  • What is Steve Yzerman waiting for? He needs a goalie bad in Tampa Bay. Dan Ellis and Mike Smith have cost his team probably six to eight points already. The Bolts have the third worst GAA in the league, but they've given up the second fewest shots per game. That is a clear indication that his goalies stink, and if he can't land Evgeni Nabokov he needs to find a goalie soon. If he doesn't the Bolts won't be getting home ice advantage in any playoff round.
     
  • Logan Couture played 25 games last year, and because he didn't play 26 he is considered a rookie. He did play 15 games in the playoffs, and some voters might hold that against him in the Calder voting. Couture currently leads NHL rookies in scoring with 24 points, one ahead of Jeff Skinner and two ahead of Jordan Eberle. He does have 17 goals though, which is seven more than second place Taylor Hall. If Couture is close with one of those three in April, his playoff experience from last year could hurt him in the voting.
     
  • The Philadelphia Flyers are the best team in the NHL. They have loads of offensive depth along with size and grit up front. They have the best set of D-men in the league and Bobrovsky is giving them something they haven't had since Ron Hextall; a legitimate goalie. If they are healthy come playoff time, they'd be my favourite.
     
  • Who is the best tandem in the league? The Sedins? Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf? Steven Stamkos and Marty St. Louis or Ovechkin and Nicklas Backstrom? Stamkos and St. Louis have combined for 37 goals and 86 points. The Sedins have 22 goals and 75 points, the Ducks' Duo has 29 goals and 73 points while Ovechkin and Backstrom have 23 goals and 72 points. The Bolts pair is the most productive now, but I wonder if Ovechkin finds his scoring touch if they can close the gap?
     
  • If Sidney Crosby had a decent winger, Chris Kunitz has 20 points, you know he would be in the conversation. In fact, even with Kunitz's 20 points they would sit right behind the Sedins with 74 points. Just another stat to show how dominant Crosby has been, and he's pretty much doing it by himself.
     
  • The Predators are the streakiest team in the league. They started the season 5-0-3, then lost five straight, then went 4-3-2 and now are on a 8-1-1 streak. They have two solid goalies. Pekka Rinne started 19 of their first 24, with a GAA of 2.38 and SV% of 0.918. He got hurt and now Anders Lindback has started eight straight going 6-1-1 and has a 2.27 GAA and .0925 SV% on the season. I wonder if Yzerman is calling David Poile?
     
  • Matt Duchene has eleven goals and 20 points in his last 15 games, and he has really stepped up since Chris Stewart broke his hand fighting Kyle Brodziak. In the ten games without Stewart, Duchene has seven goals and 13 points. The Avs were ecstatic when Duchene dropped to number three in 2009, and it looks like Duchene might turn out to be a better player than John Tavares.
Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#1 Stone Hands McOsta
December 20 2010, 11:00AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

My favorite x-mas present was my FIST Slap Shot: Super Pro Hockey game!!

Happy Holidays Gregor

Avatar
#2 Soft Hands McSteeley - FIST Movement
December 20 2010, 11:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

The "Skill Stick" is single handedly the greatest addition to hockey video games.

Avatar
#3 Soft Hands McSteeley - FIST Movement
December 20 2010, 11:09AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
DDP wrote:

Let me be the FIST to complain...no ice women???

Great read...

Ice women now take place on Fridays.

Avatar
#4 John Chambers
December 20 2010, 11:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
2
props

With regard to the 2011 draft, it would appear that the Oilers are going to draft anywhere from 4th to about 9th overall.

It looks like things are stacking up in a way that unless you're picking 1st overall, there isn't much upside or downside that separates guys like Landeskog, Ryan Murphy, or Brandon Saad. In any event, most players outside of Couturier don't appear to be ready to play in the NHL in '11-'12.

Therefore Oiler fans can delight over wins again, rather than suffer the guilt-ridden pangs of earning the extra point in a shootout victory.

Avatar
#5 dohfOs
December 20 2010, 11:22AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

Very nice writeup Mr. Gregor. We'll do without another top-5 pick. Not even worried after the 2010 draft. Stu is our savior.

Avatar
#6 Matt Henderson
December 20 2010, 11:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

If that Tampa team ever finds a goalie then the East better watch out

Avatar
#7 misfit
December 20 2010, 11:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Even though Crosby doesn't have a star winger, I'd still take him and Kunitz as my tandem.

And to comment on the rebuilding question, people can point to the "Penguins model" and "5 top 5 picks" all they like, but does anyone else think there's no way they're Stanley Cup champions if they had the 2nd overall pick in 2005 instead of 1st?

Avatar
#8 Pajamah
December 20 2010, 11:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
misfit wrote:

Even though Crosby doesn't have a star winger, I'd still take him and Kunitz as my tandem.

And to comment on the rebuilding question, people can point to the "Penguins model" and "5 top 5 picks" all they like, but does anyone else think there's no way they're Stanley Cup champions if they had the 2nd overall pick in 2005 instead of 1st?

Ah, it was one of those "never forget where you were" moments

and the 26th overall goes to Calgary (cant remember if it was actually 26th)

"HAHAHAHA, take that you stupid f*cking f*ckfu**kers"

.....and 25th, goes to Edmonton.

..........Le sigh!

Avatar
#10 Ender
December 20 2010, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Matt Henderson wrote:

If that Tampa team ever finds a goalie then the East better watch out

Amen. Especially because the decent teams playing in the East have a lot of 'easy points' available on their schedule this season.

Avatar
#11 Trent
December 20 2010, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Intelligent Television.

Avatar
#12 Zamboni Driver
December 20 2010, 11:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Says a dozen Hail Mary's et al for Gregor...hell for us all.

You canNOT speak the name of he that shall never been named.

No nerds, not Valdemort (I'm actually rather hoping I misspelled that)...

Steve Kelly

Gregor, c'mon....from Positive Fridays to "Tear your Heart Out" Mondays??!!

Avatar
#13 Horcsky
December 20 2010, 12:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Jason Gregor wrote:

Oilers took Cogliano 25th and Flames took Matt Pelech 26th...

People might say, "who the hell is Matt Pelech?!" Unfortunately, people might say the same about Cogs in a couple of years.

Avatar
#14 misfit
December 20 2010, 12:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
Horcsky wrote:

People might say, "who the hell is Matt Pelech?!" Unfortunately, people might say the same about Cogs in a couple of years.

119 points, 277 NHL games played (and counting).

I'd say Cogliano has covered the bet regardless of what happens from here on in.

He's certainly not the 8th best player taken in that draft, but going into this year he was the 8th most productive.

Avatar
#15 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 20 2010, 12:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

If Couture continues to score like this how can't they give him the calder? That's 40+ goals for a rookie. Sure he is more mature and ready for the game, but that really should mean nothing.

Avatar
#16 Reggie
December 20 2010, 12:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Horcsky wrote:

People might say, "who the hell is Matt Pelech?!" Unfortunately, people might say the same about Cogs in a couple of years.

Someone playing 5 NHL games versus 277 doesn't put these two players into the same category.

Cogs had a 45 point season and has that unique record of three consecutive overtime winners.

Sure, maybe he's not the player we all hoped he would be, but then compare him to:

Steve Kelly 149 NHL games Jason Bonsignore 79 NHL games Jesse Niinimaki 0 NHL games

And numerous other's who've never even played a full season in the NHL.

Just sayin ....

Avatar
#17 book¡e
December 20 2010, 12:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props

That game was great, until your disc controller started to screw up and you couldn't go in one of the directions and hand to compensate by doing spineramas all of the time.

Avatar
#18 Horcsky
December 20 2010, 12:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
Matt Henderson wrote:

If that Tampa team ever finds a goalie then the East better watch out

Tampa may also have to focus more on their own game, rather than their opposition (i.e. shootout moves) haha.

Avatar
#19 Horcsky
December 20 2010, 12:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
misfit wrote:

119 points, 277 NHL games played (and counting).

I'd say Cogliano has covered the bet regardless of what happens from here on in.

He's certainly not the 8th best player taken in that draft, but going into this year he was the 8th most productive.

Yup, but I think he's a strong candidate to join the long list of forgotten, middling Oilers.

Avatar
#20 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 20 2010, 12:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
2
props

Good old Jason Bonsignore. I met him down by the locker rooms when he played for Tampa. I remember asking for his autograph and the guy was stunned that I knew who he was.

Avatar
#21 OILERSORDEATH
December 20 2010, 12:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

If Couture continues to score like this how can't they give him the calder? That's 40+ goals for a rookie. Sure he is more mature and ready for the game, but that really should mean nothing.

Because scooping in rebounds from Thorton and Marleau isn't impressive. If Hall was on San Jose right now he'd would have 40 goals!!

Avatar
#22 Reggie
December 20 2010, 12:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
OILERSORDEATH wrote:

Because scooping in rebounds from Thorton and Marleau isn't impressive. If Hall was on San Jose right now he'd would have 40 goals!!

Just ask Devin Setoguchi (31-34-65pts)what that feels like ?

And now ask what have you done for me lately ?

Currently on pace for 34pts. Entering into Cogs territory ...

Avatar
#23 Pajamah
December 20 2010, 12:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
1
props
Reggie wrote:

Just ask Devin Setoguchi (31-34-65pts)what that feels like ?

And now ask what have you done for me lately ?

Currently on pace for 34pts. Entering into Cogs territory ...

Don't forget good ol' whats his face from Moose Knuckle, SK

Jonathon...........CheeeeeeeeeeeeChooooooooooo

Quick, someone pull up his stats from Binghamton

Avatar
#24 dotfras
December 20 2010, 12:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OILERSORDEATH wrote:

Because scooping in rebounds from Thorton and Marleau isn't impressive. If Hall was on San Jose right now he'd would have 40 goals!!

If only that was the case. Couture doesn't even see time with Thornton.

It's basically been him paired with Clowe & a bunch of different wingers.

Avatar
#25 Woodguy
December 20 2010, 01:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OILERSORDEATH wrote:

Because scooping in rebounds from Thorton and Marleau isn't impressive. If Hall was on San Jose right now he'd would have 40 goals!!

Here's the top 5 line combos that Couture had been a part of for 5v5 scoring. Not a Thornton to be seen.

Couture isn't getting cheap sloppy seconds, he's a player.

23.72% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 78 FERRIERO,BENN

22.76% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 8 PAVELSKI,JOE

9.11% EV 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 15 HEATLEY,DANY - 12 MARLEAU,PATRICK

8.31% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 15 HEATLEY,DANY

7.35% EV 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 64 MCGINN,JAMIE - 17 MITCHELL,TORREY

Stats courtesy of Dobberhockey

Avatar
#26 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 20 2010, 01:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Woodguy wrote:

Here's the top 5 line combos that Couture had been a part of for 5v5 scoring. Not a Thornton to be seen.

Couture isn't getting cheap sloppy seconds, he's a player.

23.72% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 78 FERRIERO,BENN

22.76% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 8 PAVELSKI,JOE

9.11% EV 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 15 HEATLEY,DANY - 12 MARLEAU,PATRICK

8.31% EV 29 CLOWE,RYANE - 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 15 HEATLEY,DANY

7.35% EV 39 COUTURE,LOGAN - 64 MCGINN,JAMIE - 17 MITCHELL,TORREY

Stats courtesy of Dobberhockey

Damn, I was just going to post the same thing.

~sounded like such a good explination though~

Avatar
#27 9 Inches Uncut
December 20 2010, 01:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@OILERSORDEATH

Somebody hasn't actually seen Couture play.

Avatar
#28 9 Inches Uncut
December 20 2010, 01:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Reggie wrote:

Just ask Devin Setoguchi (31-34-65pts)what that feels like ?

And now ask what have you done for me lately ?

Currently on pace for 34pts. Entering into Cogs territory ...

Setoguchi got a rough deal when Heatley came to town and took his minutes. Then he got hurt.

He's got a lot more going for him the Cogliano and is the sort of guy I'd buy low on.

Avatar
#29 Bucknuck
December 20 2010, 01:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Woodguy

Taylor Hall is getting a lot of top unit PP time and being put in situations for success. He is not second fiddle around here. On a team with Heatley and Thornton he would see less time.

Having said that, it is important to note that on a team with Marleau, Heatley and Thornton he would not be seeing the other team's top defenders as much which would give him a better opportunity to do his thing.

Avatar
#30 longbottom/P.Biglow
December 20 2010, 01:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Well we will see tommorrow the second game we have played them this season see how they do against each outher. I bet you will see Couture against Hall quite a bit.

Avatar
#31 hal a pena
December 20 2010, 01:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

how about that calgary flames juggernaut first rounder, chucko. brilliant managerial move, rather stan polluck like on dutters behalf.

Avatar
#32 Woodguy
December 20 2010, 01:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Bucknuck wrote:

Taylor Hall is getting a lot of top unit PP time and being put in situations for success. He is not second fiddle around here. On a team with Heatley and Thornton he would see less time.

Having said that, it is important to note that on a team with Marleau, Heatley and Thornton he would not be seeing the other team's top defenders as much which would give him a better opportunity to do his thing.

I never said anything about Hall.

My entire post was about Couture.

Avatar
#33 Dennis
December 20 2010, 01:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Gregor: are you sure the netminding situation in TB is a big deal? What about the Oilers PK? Is that a big deal?:)

Sorry but that one always cracks me up.

Anyway, it was a decent read all around:)

Avatar
#34 They're $hittie
December 20 2010, 01:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

regardless, clowe and pavelski are a little bit more established than hall linemates, and the number one line in san jose will always get the top d pairing of the opposition which is what hall is seing in edmonton. Still right now Couture is Calder.

Avatar
#35 hall&eberle=love
December 20 2010, 01:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Just saying....I think it would be stupid if logan couture won the calder trophy even if he ended the year with the most points. People got to look at how this is jordan and taylor's first year in the nhl and they are at the top of points for rookies, while logan played 25 games last year and is only beating jordan by two points. I would love if jordan won the calder trophy or jeff skinner - i like this kid. They deserve it more than logan. I am excited to watch tomorrow's game after the columbus game, i really hope they play well and don't get blown away.

Avatar
#36 longbottom/P.Biglow
December 20 2010, 01:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Agreed, with the Oilers road record suggest it might be a close one.

Avatar
#37 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 20 2010, 02:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
They're $hittie wrote:

regardless, clowe and pavelski are a little bit more established than hall linemates, and the number one line in san jose will always get the top d pairing of the opposition which is what hall is seing in edmonton. Still right now Couture is Calder.

Ya he has some decent linemates, but so do 50% of the other players in the league.

Discrediting his start over who he plays with is ridiculous.

Avatar
#38 Horcsky
December 20 2010, 02:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Ya he has some decent linemates, but so do 50% of the other players in the league.

Discrediting his start over who he plays with is ridiculous.

Let's not forget the discussion about players making other players better either. I think the consensus on that one was that players are mostly responsible for their own successes or failures, not their linemates.

Avatar
#39 Woodguy
December 20 2010, 02:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Dennis wrote:

Gregor: are you sure the netminding situation in TB is a big deal? What about the Oilers PK? Is that a big deal?:)

Sorry but that one always cracks me up.

Anyway, it was a decent read all around:)

I don't understand why I never read about the Oiler's historically bad PK in the papers or the mainstream sites.

It seems to have been brushed away with "we need better PK'ers", but this PK is one of the worst all time, surely its not just personnel?

Even Horcoff was getting killed on the PK and traditionally his PK number are decent.

Look at Horcoff's Goals Against/60 on the PK the last 4 years.

10/11 17.81 GA/60

09/10 6.26

08/09 8.45

07/08 5.79

When a veteran PK'er like Horcoff is getting lit up at over 3 times his previous year's average, and the rest of the team is the same, I think the coaching staff should be questioned on the scheme.

Oilers need better PK'ers? Sure

The players are entirely at fault for this horrid PK? Not a chance.

Avatar
#40 David S
December 20 2010, 02:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Woodguy wrote:

I don't understand why I never read about the Oiler's historically bad PK in the papers or the mainstream sites.

It seems to have been brushed away with "we need better PK'ers", but this PK is one of the worst all time, surely its not just personnel?

Even Horcoff was getting killed on the PK and traditionally his PK number are decent.

Look at Horcoff's Goals Against/60 on the PK the last 4 years.

10/11 17.81 GA/60

09/10 6.26

08/09 8.45

07/08 5.79

When a veteran PK'er like Horcoff is getting lit up at over 3 times his previous year's average, and the rest of the team is the same, I think the coaching staff should be questioned on the scheme.

Oilers need better PK'ers? Sure

The players are entirely at fault for this horrid PK? Not a chance.

Very true. Maybe the diamond PK is far too complicated for the players we have to execute it to the level required to be effective. Perhaps the system only works with more experienced/better players - thus both the system and the players are not in sync, which is a coaching fault.

I seem to recall (just in the past few days) Renney saying something about switching back to a traditional box system, because he'd realized just this.

Avatar
#41 Aleslav Smidsky
December 20 2010, 02:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Nice try @$$holes, but Omark is winning the Calder. (don't attack me, I was just being funny and optimistic)

Even if TB gets a goalie, I don't see them being that big of a threat. Flyers will own the Eastern Conference this year.

Avatar
#42 Dennis
December 20 2010, 02:56PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Woodguy wrote:

I don't understand why I never read about the Oiler's historically bad PK in the papers or the mainstream sites.

It seems to have been brushed away with "we need better PK'ers", but this PK is one of the worst all time, surely its not just personnel?

Even Horcoff was getting killed on the PK and traditionally his PK number are decent.

Look at Horcoff's Goals Against/60 on the PK the last 4 years.

10/11 17.81 GA/60

09/10 6.26

08/09 8.45

07/08 5.79

When a veteran PK'er like Horcoff is getting lit up at over 3 times his previous year's average, and the rest of the team is the same, I think the coaching staff should be questioned on the scheme.

Oilers need better PK'ers? Sure

The players are entirely at fault for this horrid PK? Not a chance.

To be fair, WG, .........

Well, honestly, I've got nothing:) The PK's ineptitude is one for the ages yet it's somehow not worthy to be written about.

Maybe it's because Steve Smith's in charge and he's a really nice guy? Maybe it's because people think that just because the Oilers tried to sign Malholtra that means they didn't have to try and bring anyone else in that could kill a penalty?

I just don't know why no one thinks it's article-worthy and why no one would dig and ask if the Oilers really A: thought they had the PK horses going into this season or B: think that the current approach to PKing Doesn't make them look like total donkeys on occasion.

I can handle us being light up chances-wise because the kids are learning; I don't have a problem with that in the least. But I can't wrap my mind around the two GMs not filling the bottom six with Pkers and or guys who could win a draw and also continuing to use an approach to PKing that is clearly an absolute failure.

Avatar
#43 Dennis
December 20 2010, 02:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
David S wrote:

Very true. Maybe the diamond PK is far too complicated for the players we have to execute it to the level required to be effective. Perhaps the system only works with more experienced/better players - thus both the system and the players are not in sync, which is a coaching fault.

I seem to recall (just in the past few days) Renney saying something about switching back to a traditional box system, because he'd realized just this.

I don't remember reading that but I hope you're right because hopefully that would be a start to getting this thing back somewhat on track.

Avatar
#44 Jacob
December 20 2010, 03:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

No, Ovechkin has not "become more of a playmaker this year". He's averaging .68 assists per game this year, vs .82 last year. And he's leading the league (never mind his linemates) in shots, as always. I'm not sure where to find powerplay shot statistics, but I'd say Ovi's main problem is his shooting percentage. It's never been outstanding, but this year it's ranked 231st. So Ovi doesn't need to shoot MORE so much as BETTER.

Avatar
#45 9 Inches Uncut
December 20 2010, 03:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
hall&eberle=love wrote:

Just saying....I think it would be stupid if logan couture won the calder trophy even if he ended the year with the most points. People got to look at how this is jordan and taylor's first year in the nhl and they are at the top of points for rookies, while logan played 25 games last year and is only beating jordan by two points. I would love if jordan won the calder trophy or jeff skinner - i like this kid. They deserve it more than logan. I am excited to watch tomorrow's game after the columbus game, i really hope they play well and don't get blown away.

I think the Calder is unimportant and people shouldn't worry or care who wins it.

Avatar
#46 Pension Plan Puppets
December 20 2010, 03:24PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

In Edmonton, many fans are hoping for one more top-five pick to complete the rebuild

That might be a little optimistic.

Avatar
#47 thebiggestmanintheworld
December 20 2010, 03:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Anytime you listen to a T-Ren press conference it sounds scripted. Whether or not it is intentional,(most of) the Edmonton media seems to be towing the company line pretty hard most nights.

Avatar
#48 NastyNate
December 20 2010, 03:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@thebiggestmanintheworld

First time watching a post game presser? 90% of players and coaches know how to handle the media properly. Maybe your perspective is a bit off because we in Canada get a steady dose of Ron Wilson on TSN and here in Edmonton we're used to Pat Quinn and MacT. These outspoken inividuals are not the norm, just what we've become accustomed to here in Edmonton. I personally think Renney is a breathe of fresh air and he picks his spots to let his opinion to be known. By far the best media handling coach we've had in a long time. I may be wrong because I never watch post game presser's, but from what i've seen from the MSM coverage he does a great job. If Ron Wilson,John Torterella or someother outspoken head coach were running this team Hall, Eberle and Pajaarvi would have been thrown under the bus numerous times by now. Renney is one smart cookie.

Avatar
#49 NastyNate
December 20 2010, 03:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@thebiggestmanintheworld

dp

Avatar
#50 Ducey
December 20 2010, 04:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I think the Oilers have abandoned the diamond PK in the last few weeks with a corresponding improvement in the PK.

I don't know if any stats can be found to back it up but they went a few games there without giving up a PP marker and actually go their %age to above 70%.

Comments are closed for this article.