Paajarvi Should Have Been Held Back A Year

Jonathan Willis
January 27 2011 09:47AM

This fall, some argued that the Oilers were making a mistake inserting all three of their blue-chip forward prospects into the line-up at the same time. The player I suggested should have been given another year of seasoning at a lower professional level was Magnus Paajarvi, and given what we’ve seen so far this season I think that would have been the correct decision.

It’s not that Paajarvi’s been a bad player. He hasn’t, particularly given his age and role on the roster. With Hall (and Eberle, prior to injury) playing so well, it sometimes seems Paajarvi doesn’t get his due. He’s still a player I think we can regard as a difference maker somewhere down the road.

The problem is that the Oilers are burning a year of Paajarvi’s entry-level contract while he isn’t a difference maker to give him limited NHL minutes, when they could be saving that year for when he’s a better player and giving him virtually unlimited minutes in the SEL or AHL. From a cap management and development perspective, that strikes me as flawed thinking.

This is particularly true when there are plenty of other options available. Let’s compare Paajarvi’s performance to that of two other forwards, one currently on the Oilers’ roster and one who the team bought out last year. For ease of comparison, we’ll adjust games played to Paajarvi’s 47.

Player GP G A PTS
Paajarvi, 2010-11 47 6 13 19
Omark, 2010-11 47 7 14 21
Nilsson, 2009-10 47 9 13 22

Given that this was always going to be a burned season anyway, the difference in performance between Paajarvi and a player like Robert Nilsson or Linus Omark is a trivial thing, but the fact is the Oilers could have got comparable play from either option.

In either case, there would have been tangible benefits:

  • Paajarvi could play a much larger role on a lower-level professional team
  • Paajarvi’s ELC would slide forward another year, keeping him at a lower pay threshold for one additional season and delaying his UFA eligibility by an additional season
  • (If Omark) The Oilers would have had a better opportunity to evaluate Omark at the NHL level over an entire seaso
  • (If Nilsson) The Oilers would have saved the money used in his buyout, as well as avoided the six-figure cap penalty for 2011-12

It’s not the end of the world that the Oilers chose to bring Paajarvi into the NHL this year, and I don’t doubt it will be valuable experience for him. It just doesn’t strike me as the best option.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#51 They're $hittie
January 27 2011, 11:59AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

and that link right now for that line is a swede , and yes 89 needs to pick it up

Avatar
#52 Scott in Grande Prairie
January 27 2011, 11:59AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I’ve gotta agree with you Jonathan. In hindsight, it probably would have been smart for PRV to spend a year in OK City (but not Sweden – if he was gonna have another adjustment year, it might as well be over here). I’m a big believer in using the minors appropriately and I think PRV, assuming he took the demotion maturely, probably would have been a force down there.

But, last summer, I think the Oilers brass were so obsessed with the notion of using the “Big Three” as the focal point of their marketing campaign, PRV had a roster spot sealed up. And he ended up having a pretty damn good camp, so you could say he earned the spot.

Plus, as one of the previous posts alluded, there is a value of getting the kids altogether at once nice and early. The chemistry benefits are tangible – as they were in the early 1980s group of kids. They learned how to win and how not-to-lose together. There’s a value in that.

If we’re going to second-guess anything with the benefit of hindsight, we should really be second-guessing the decision to send down Linus Omark to the minors at the end of training camp.

I think we can all agree that PRV has had two rookie seasons – one that took place before Omark was called up and one that took place after Omark was called up.

In hindsight, the Oilers probably should have anticipated right from the start that having another Swedish player on the team was probably good for (both) of them. Jari Kurri had Risto Siltanen, after all, and Esa Tikkanen had Kurri.

Never mind the fact that Omark is a way-better-grinder and puck-hound than any of us thought he was, the intangibles he’s brought to the team as The Other Swedish Dude are quite valuable.

But the big question will be this: Are the Oilers gonna rush their next first-round gem, Mr. Whoever-it-is-they-pick-first-in-June, into the NHL next year?

I’m not sure if they guy they pick is going to be able to step in. I’m not sure because I just don’t know – I haven’t seen enough of any of them to make any kind of informed decision Couturier (sp?), Landeskog, Larsson, Nugent-Hopkins, etc.

Avatar
#53 TigerUnderGlass
January 27 2011, 12:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Hemmercules wrote:

Omark, Petry and Dubnyk need new contracts a year ahead of MPS, Hall and Ebs do they not?? I don't see Gagner, Cogs and Brule getting huge raises so there shouldn't be a problem keeping almost all of them. I highly doubt all 6 rookies get huge contracts either. Tambo needs to build the defense and find another goalie prior to the big 3 getting contracts or that could be a tough time. Peckham is RFA this summer so it seems to me that the rookie contracts are rather spread out. Wouldn't have hurt to have held back MPS though and have his new conract come up a year after Hall and Ebs.

Yeah you're right. I didn't really think about it, but I looked just now and they are up a year before. I'm not concerned about Dubnyks contract either way.

Avatar
#54 edmontoncritic - BRoadwAY
January 27 2011, 12:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
VMR wrote:

How exactly?

If you pay them for performance and not expectations they'll be fine. If you go out and spend millions on a Brian Campbell or screw up on getting RFA offer sheets in on time and it combines with the Cap actually dropping or staying level rather than increasing it could hurt your teams chances of holding on to your talent. But there are so many ways to cheat the cap that really it's not a concern. Check what Philadelphia continues to do.

Completely agree. Worst case is that if you "cant afford" to keep all of them, they still have value! You still own their rights and can trade them if you need to.

Chicago is a brutal example people use to defend this point of not being able to keep their young guys. They signed marian Hossa, Huet and Campbell to retarded huge cash and term. Thats why they couldnt keep buf, ladd, versteeg not necessarily bad young player contract management

Avatar
#55 Albertaboy111
January 27 2011, 12:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Let's Rebuild wrote:

I just drank a gallon Kool-Aid so I am prepared to make this statement:

The only problem the Oilers will have with the rookies when their contracts come up for renewal would be to convice them they are taking too much of discount to stay in Edmonton and play together. Katz will have to explain to them that he can afford to keep them all and they can make more than league minimum.

Where can I find that Kool-Aid? I gotta get me some. I like the way that sounds. If only...

Avatar
#56 michael
January 27 2011, 12:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I would rather not pay 125 bucks a night to watch Jones Stortini and Jascques. Sometimnes its about the sizzle and not the steak. MP gives us the sizzle. I would rather pay to watch him at 18 then pay to watch a bunch of 2 and 3 line AHLers.

Avatar
#57 Buchburgler
January 27 2011, 12:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

So, you say dump him in the minors ... and then after the oilers blow this year and get another first overall pick would we leave PRV in the AHL for another year so we can let the number 1 pick play? What about players like pitlick, lander, hamilton and others coming up through the system? Then you have the same problem, this reasoning doesn't make alot of sense to me.

Better to let PRV play at the NHL level, especially considering coming out of training camp he was one of the top 9 forwards (and he still is).

Avatar
#58 TigerUnderGlass
January 27 2011, 12:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
VMR wrote:

How exactly?

If you pay them for performance and not expectations they'll be fine. If you go out and spend millions on a Brian Campbell or screw up on getting RFA offer sheets in on time and it combines with the Cap actually dropping or staying level rather than increasing it could hurt your teams chances of holding on to your talent. But there are so many ways to cheat the cap that really it's not a concern. Check what Philadelphia continues to do.

VMR said:

...make it fit somehow.

Building a sustainably strong franchise is not something you can put together without a good cap management plan, and is certainly never going to happen with that sort of hope-it-works-out strategy.

Avatar
#59 Lego
January 27 2011, 12:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall during that conversation.

"Well Magnus you've had a great training camp and clearly deserve a spot on the big team but we have decided to send you down the minors so we can save some cash down the road. Please don't hold this against us in future negotiations."

JW you need to realize that under the helmet is a real human being, with real feelings, not just a collection of stats.

Avatar
#60 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
January 27 2011, 12:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

What a joke. Closing in on 24 years old, Omarks 80 game pace is 12 goals and 36 points.... and that's including lighting up one of the worst goaltending performances I've ever seen.

No one is holding Omark back.

I know it hurts OB1, its always difficult when you have your 4th year NHL'er who can't keep pace with these first year kids. Maybe Gagner was just born 20 yrs too late. He would've just rocked the league in the dipsy doodle slower era i bet. Give me a north/south guy centering that line and you can keep your east/west kid.

Avatar
#61 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
January 27 2011, 01:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
David S wrote:

I see what you're getting at, but Sam could say the same thing in his defense. He was cruising at a 60 point pace before he inherited Omark and PRV.

Only time will tell David before we find out who's zooming who, don't you find it the least bit frustrating watching Sam overhandling the puck?

Avatar
#62 OILERSORDEATH
January 27 2011, 01:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Meeeh not buying either dude, sounds like the only reason they should of held him back a year is to save on his ELC. That's crap man he deserves to be playing, and it shows. Him and Omark have been magic with Sammy. Looks like he's a very coachable player as per Renney.

Avatar
#63 They're $hittie
January 27 2011, 01:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

keeping up woth the kids? he is two to three years younger than omark. read some articles about who has more points than gagner by they age of twenty one, very few, and he is on a offensively crappy team.

Dont forget Eberle is only six months younger,

are you going to do this to him also when he does not meet the ridiculously high expectations that the oilers fans had set for him.

Avatar
#64 Milli
January 27 2011, 01:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Completely disagree! I might have had more time for this a month ago, but his game seems to have come around bigtime with Omark and Gagner. And please all you haters, get off Gagners back and that dosn't mean dogpile on \horc!

Avatar
#65 Mr DeBakey
January 27 2011, 01:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

How do you market the Three Amigos if one of them is playing for Timra? I HOPE you realize the problem with your suggestion.

Avatar
#66 It's Hall Over
January 27 2011, 02:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

So MPS is on pace for 33 points this year. Let's say he increases it to 40 next year and then to 50 points in his last year of his ELC.

Where's this "Cap Management" problem that Willis is talking about?

Players that come out of their enry level deals averaging between 40-50 aren't getting massive deals anymore. Look at last years RFA's. Most range between 1.8 million and 2.3 million on their next contracts with a few exceptions.

So the Oilers add maybe 500K on his next contract? Is that really a Cap Management problem?

Surely this would change if MPS breaks out and gets 85 points, but I just don't see that happening in the next 2 years with this current team.

Avatar
#67 Coco crisp
January 27 2011, 02:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I honestly cannot believe you have compared Paajarvi to nilsson. That is unbelievable. Worst article I have read on the nation, ever.

Avatar
#68 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 27 2011, 02:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Lego wrote:

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall during that conversation.

"Well Magnus you've had a great training camp and clearly deserve a spot on the big team but we have decided to send you down the minors so we can save some cash down the road. Please don't hold this against us in future negotiations."

JW you need to realize that under the helmet is a real human being, with real feelings, not just a collection of stats.

I think people also need to realize that you picking the team based on the best 22 players in TC is pretty unrealistic.

Avatar
#69 Rocket
January 27 2011, 02:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I have to disagree with this article. It seems Paajarvi is the best back-checker on the team. Plus he creates plenty of scoring chances. It's too bad he doesn't have more points, he deserves it.

Avatar
#70 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 27 2011, 02:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Coco crisp wrote:

I honestly cannot believe you have compared Paajarvi to nilsson. That is unbelievable. Worst article I have read on the nation, ever.

He's saying you could get the same production out of Nilsson as you are out of Magnus, along with the other benifits. Worst interpetation I've read on the nation, ever.

Avatar
#71 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 27 2011, 02:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

The good old lets send him to the AHL to save a year on his contract and it will be better for his development. An agruement that cannot be confirmed or denied.

So next year if MPS is a 70 point player was it a bad thing to have him in the NHL this year?

Avatar
#72 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
January 27 2011, 02:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

What hurts is reading drivel everytime I click on the comments and see your name.

I wasn't aware there was a difference between your drivel from mine.

Avatar
#73 Oilcruzer
January 27 2011, 02:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Paajarvi reminds me of a young Jari.

Avatar
#74 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 27 2011, 02:40PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

I wasn't aware there was a difference between your drivel from mine.

A vast difference in the quality of drivel.

Avatar
#75 Oilers4ever
January 27 2011, 02:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

So shouldn't this have been raised maybe months ago.. not now when it's a bit too late.. lol..

I think it's unfair to compare Magnus to those two (especially Hall), as he is in no way as good of a player as Hall and never will be. Most nights this season, especially through the beginning of the year (I'd say first 30 games or so) he was playing 3rd line minutes. Kinda hard to get the same amount of numbers if you don't get the time (or players to play around) Cogs and Brule.. yippee, NOT. Since putting him with Gags ad Omark his numbers have gotten better. You can't expect the world from him if he gets crap to play with.

As for the year of use... roll the dice and take the chance. Here's a question that I don't know though, Omark. Does he have the same three year entry level contract? Wasn't sure what his deal was... Obviously if that's true I'm assuming that's been wasted for this year as well? I'm not sure on the logistics of how that works so if one of you smart guys can enlighten me that would be appreciated. Same thing for Jeff Petry I'd assume...

Avatar
#76 Death Metal Nightmare
January 27 2011, 03:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

no, he should have. the Oilers should have given these kids a better matrix of players to operate with. seasoning? no. playing with dudes who should barely be in the NHL? thats the problem, dude-bro.

how can you even analyze his game in isolation with the crap hes playing with and the minimal PP time he gets?

lame analysis

Avatar
#77 JBarr
January 27 2011, 03:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I watched the Phoenix game live in Phoenix and from a good blue line seat that gave me a good look at Oiler performance in the Phoenix zone. Omark played very well -- he is aggressive in the corners and good at digging the puck out and turning into a play. He and MPJ play beautifully together -- they look like the young Sedins. Reddux adds a lot of grit and forechecking. Both he and Omark play bigger than their size and neither got pushed around. At times Gagner looked like the ideal centre for MPJ and Omark. I think all three are worth keeping, and Cogs is slowly becoming more effective. He will probably never be more of a scorer than Todd Marchant, but he is just as fast and considerably more aggressive. I understand why some people get down on Penner; like a lot of big men he doesn't seem to be playing with much fire but he does work well in front of the net and watching how hard it is to get the puck away from him, is a thing of beauty.

Avatar
#78 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 27 2011, 03:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Bucknuck

"As for Gagner slowing his line down, that made me laugh out loud. Have you actually watched Gagner play? I am with OB1. Gagner is not holding those two back. He's a better player than Linus and Magnus, and has been since his first year (i.e. he was better at 18 than they are now). I will be very surprised if either of those two players ever puts up more points than Gagner (barring injury"

He's making 3-4 plays a night were he puts his teamates in high quality scoring areas. Continue to do that, along with chipping in 20 - 25/year without getting blown up defensively and he's a quality piece of what should be a winning team down the line.

Avatar
#79 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
January 27 2011, 03:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

A vast difference in the quality of drivel.

I heart you OB1, love your firehose method (I'm always right) of communicating. Has there ever been a time here on ON where you realized you fell short of perfection, other than on this 89 thing?

Avatar
#80 David S
January 27 2011, 03:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

"As for Gagner slowing his line down, that made me laugh out loud. Have you actually watched Gagner play? I am with OB1. Gagner is not holding those two back. He's a better player than Linus and Magnus, and has been since his first year (i.e. he was better at 18 than they are now). I will be very surprised if either of those two players ever puts up more points than Gagner (barring injury"

He's making 3-4 plays a night were he puts his teamates in high quality scoring areas. Continue to do that, along with chipping in 20 - 25/year without getting blown up defensively and he's a quality piece of what should be a winning team down the line.

Very much agreed on this. When Omark and PRV learn to finish more, this could be one helluva decent line. As it is, on alot of nights lately they've been the team's best line.

Avatar
#81 David S
January 27 2011, 03:24PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

"As for Gagner slowing his line down, that made me laugh out loud. Have you actually watched Gagner play? I am with OB1. Gagner is not holding those two back. He's a better player than Linus and Magnus, and has been since his first year (i.e. he was better at 18 than they are now). I will be very surprised if either of those two players ever puts up more points than Gagner (barring injury"

He's making 3-4 plays a night were he puts his teamates in high quality scoring areas. Continue to do that, along with chipping in 20 - 25/year without getting blown up defensively and he's a quality piece of what should be a winning team down the line.

[EDIT] - Sorry for the double post. ON a bit slow today. Little help there mods?

Avatar
#82 jake
January 27 2011, 03:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

"Gagner is not holding those two back. He's a better player than Linus and Magnus, and has been since his first year (i.e. he was better at 18 than they are now). I will be very surprised if either of those two players ever puts up more points than Gagner (barring injury)."

Doesn't hurt when you have (have had) a very very long leash. Gagner has had many many brutal defensive lapses since 18.

Avatar
#83 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 03:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

I picked Pääjärvi to win the Calder this year. At game #9 though, when people were saying Hall should go back to junior (Worst. Idea. Ever. btw), I thought PRV should go to the AHL. I still think he would have benefited from a year in the minors. He could refine his D game and get used the the North American style.

Could have saved that year on the ELC as well. Omark could use a full year in the AHL as well.

The truth is however, there is no way either would have stayed there. They would have been called up due to injuries or lack of depth.

Avatar
#84 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 03:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Gagner is a good player, and I would bet he gets traded. With the emergence of Omark, and Cogs showing he can play a 2 way game, I think Gagas can fetch more on the open market.

I like him and I like his game and think he is going to be a good player in this league for a long time (c'mon.. he is twenty-freaking-one!) He may not fit on this team though.

If Sam was 3" taller and 15lbs heavier, I would say he stays.... but....

Avatar
#85 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 03:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

For some reason, your posts held more water when your pic was The Most Interesting Man in the World

Avatar
#86 TigerUnderGlass
January 27 2011, 03:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

I wasn't aware there was a difference between your drivel from mine.

There is opinionated drivel and there is ignorant drivel.

Ignorant drivel is kind of like pushing this Gagner thing while ignoring obvious improvements in his game...

...or when guys like DRock decide to make condescending responses when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, like his response to the idea of trading for extended contracts.

I think these are the types of comments he refers to as drivel.

Avatar
#87 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 03:51PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

JK, Quicksilver,

you make some good points on Gagner

Avatar
#88 Sorensenator
January 27 2011, 04:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Yes comparing Paajarvi to either of those other swedes is retarded.

It's all about confidence right now with Paajarvi. His stellar play and hatrick back in pre-season must have been erased from history as this article hints. I don't think any team would turn down his right to a roster spot with the performance he showed at both training camp and pre-season.

There is extreme competition with Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle for Paajarvi to contend with, and makes it difficult (mentally) as he is still adjusting to the North American game.

A much better comparison: Markus Naslund

A very similar career path; Naslund played three seasons for Modo from the ages 17-19. At 20, only a year older than Paajarvi, Naslund played his first year in the NHL for Pittsburgh registering only 11 points. It would take five more years for Naslund to finally make a big impact, playing on the Vancouver Canucks and registering his first fifty point season. I see Paajarvi reaching that much quicker, enough said.

Avatar
#89 spOILer
January 27 2011, 04:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

Very surprised to see this article from JW.

The MPS to Nilsson argument is irrelevant. The decision you are talking about would have to have been made at the end of TC.

At the end of TC, MPS was coming off a hattrick against the Flames, IIRC.

He looked comfortable and confident against NHL opp both in TC and the first 10 games of the season.

He still does.

He has to learn to play against this level of comp at some point in his life. Why make it later rather than sooner? I'm pretty sure we went over this argument ad infinitum when MC raised it w.r.t. Hall. What would be the point of holding him back from something he is so obviously ready to learn?

Avatar
#90 rubbertrout
January 27 2011, 04:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Oilcruzer wrote:

Willis, it's good to create discussion, but if you really believe what you have written, then I am shocked.

The Oil had to play youth. The season ticket base demanded that, let alone the fans.

The mgmt isn't Kreskin. They can't predict who will perform. That didn't matter anyway, as the kids have all met or exceeded expectations as a group.

This is a last place team, and the fans are HAPPY! Try that anywhere other than Green Bay or Saskatchewan.

Lastly, if you hold back Magnus PI, it would only make sense if he was in the AHL, so he learns the hitting and culture. What then? How do you make a call up and leave him there? No one would accept that.

Good thread for discussion tho.

If the management makes hockey decisions based on what the fans want then we have a problem (and we do). Think Ken Holland gives a rats ass what the fans want? He puts together a winning team. You only have to pander to the fans' desires if you've done a s&%tty job of icing a team for the past few years (as we have).

If you let Johnny from the beer league dictate how the team is run and how the cap is managed then any success on the rebuild will be by accident.

I fully expect that the fans expecations had something to do with the big three being played up with the big club and that is just another one of the reasons I think our management is incompetent.

EDIT: I thought this when Omark went down after largely outplaying Magnus PI in the preseason. This team's management is selling the future and they can do a better job of selling the guys that the fans want to see.

Avatar
#91 ubermiguel
January 27 2011, 04:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Oilcruzer wrote:

Paajarvi reminds me of a young Jari.

I see that too. Magnus is a bit bigger, but so is the rest of the league. Kurri was also under-rated defensively.

Avatar
#92 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
January 27 2011, 04:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

There is opinionated drivel and there is ignorant drivel.

Ignorant drivel is kind of like pushing this Gagner thing while ignoring obvious improvements in his game...

...or when guys like DRock decide to make condescending responses when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, like his response to the idea of trading for extended contracts.

I think these are the types of comments he refers to as drivel.

Just one last question TUG, if this offensive player in question finishes up his 4th season in a row with 40 something points again, will these claims suddenly become less ignorant?

Where is this progress that you speak of, is it in the faceoff circle or his PP/PK production, is he stronger on his feet? Please help me see the progress in his game. From what is see he's getting more minutes without the Oilers realizing higher offensive totals. If you can make a case for Gagners progress i'll keep my opinion to myself/mouth shut.

Avatar
#93 spOILer
January 27 2011, 04:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

To clarify the above a bit...

The Nilsson argument is irrelevant because we didn't have a points comparison at the end of TC. We did have a guy lighting it up in TC and showing the requisite poise and confidence ability that determines whther or not a young player stays.

Ths is a perfect example of the 20-20 Hindsight criticism of management that rules the Oilogosphere.

The Nilsson argument is also irrelevant because Nilsson wasn't going to be part of the future of this club, so why waste dollars and a roster spot on him to protect a guy who needs to learn at this level some time anyway?

Avatar
#94 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 04:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

As far as the comparisons....

Nilson, Omark, and PRV are young players that developed in the SEL at a young age. How are they bad comparisons?

Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and we now know the sort of player Nilson is, but after 47 games, it isn't a bad comparison and there is no need to refer to it as "retarded".

I agree that PRV (and Omark for that matter) would have benefited playing a year in the AHL, and both made very good cases in TC to stay, but the reality is that with the lack of depth, they would have both been up here anyway so it doesn't make bringing it up 2/3 through the season relevant.

Avatar
#95 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 04:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

However....

Way to generate 100 comments JW!

Avatar
#96 Sorensenator
January 27 2011, 04:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Wax Man Riley wrote:

As far as the comparisons....

Nilson, Omark, and PRV are young players that developed in the SEL at a young age. How are they bad comparisons?

Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and we now know the sort of player Nilson is, but after 47 games, it isn't a bad comparison and there is no need to refer to it as "retarded".

I agree that PRV (and Omark for that matter) would have benefited playing a year in the AHL, and both made very good cases in TC to stay, but the reality is that with the lack of depth, they would have both been up here anyway so it doesn't make bringing it up 2/3 through the season relevant.

Nilsson and Omark were both well into their 20's coming into the NHL. Paajarvi is 19. Your seriously mistaken if you think Paajarvi is on the same wave length as Nilsson and Omark. Not only is Paajarvi 6'3 and 200 lbs, but he was also drafted 10th overall.

Avatar
#97 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
January 27 2011, 04:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props
Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

I heart you OB1, love your firehose method (I'm always right) of communicating. Has there ever been a time here on ON where you realized you fell short of perfection, other than on this 89 thing?

well, assuming he is still the "tin man" from the old days around the interweb, i suggest asking him where he, at one time, had Mr.Robert Nilsson pegged.

Hint- it was along the lines of "sure fire 2nd liner in the NHL"

if he isnt who i think he is, then i will go back to eating my giant block of cheese and watching Wheel of Fortune re-runs

Avatar
#98 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 04:47PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Sorensenator

I think Pääjärvi will be an elite player especially as he matures and fills out, he will be a scary, scary man to defend against.

Omark will be a good, skilled player that has more drive and heart than Nilson by miles.

Nilson....well...we know what sort of player he is.

What I'm saying, is that all 3, being raised in the SEL, and coming off of their first 47 games (save for Omark) is not too bad a comparison as far as former Oilers go and not worth being branded as "retarded".

Avatar
#99 TigerUnderGlass
January 27 2011, 04:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@Next up, is Connor McJesus.

I don't have a problem with the opinion that he isn't improving. I have a problem with your defense of that opinion. I have a problem with the statements you often give that just do not make sense and/or are blatant cherry picks.

You go on and on about being frustrated watching him, but from your comments I get more of an impression of a guy who has made up his mind and is seeing only what he wants to see while ignoring context completely.

If you could give even the slightest impression that you were trying to watch him objectively it might lend a touch of credibility.

Avatar
#100 Wax Man Riley
January 27 2011, 04:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Props
0
props

@TigerUnderGlass

That is a good point. I think at times we have our hate-coloured glasses on. I have had them all year when I watch JFJ (and I'm sure most of you are wearing the same glasses watching him), but even I have had to say he had a good game or 2 (out of 27 he has played), or even had an effective shift.

Comments are closed for this article.