OILERS DRAFT MOMENTS, VOLUME 2

Lowetide
June 26 2013 05:39PM

The Edmonton Oilers have supplied us with endless stories at the draft table--some diamonds, some stone. The annual teenage crapshoot has blessed the copper and blue and beaten the Oildrop about the face and hands a few times too. For fans, sometimes the indications are clear early on. 

MARC ANTOINE POULIOT

Pouliot's story was injury. The young Q center had been rocked at the top prospects game and then suffered a long string of injuries on his way to being one of the poorest payoffs in the 2003 first round. He then hurt his hip that summer at the 2003 summer WJ hockey camp in Calgary, and suffered an adbominal injury in November of 2003. It was revealed in the spring of 2004 he's also suffered a broken wrist during the 2003-04 season. 

After that, the injuries got more creative, reaching their zenith with the Pat Quinn "pubis thing' media conference. Pouliot managed to play 192 NHL games before heading to Europe. 

JORDAN EBERLE

Ranked 29th on Bob Mckenzie's consensus list, Eberle was taken 22nd overall in the 2008 entry draft. He is one of the best draft selections in team history, ranking second in goals from 2008 draftees. Eberle is incredibly popular with the Oiler fanbase, partly because of his tremendous development as an offensive player during his junior career and his stunning international performances at the World Junior Championships. 

Jordan Eberle is as attached to the city of Edmonton as any Oiler since 1979. Massively popular, he's a major part of the young cluster Oiler fans believe will someday bring Stanley back to Edmonton. 

JESSE NIINIMAKI

The Jesse Niinimaki selection is one I'll remember forever, mostly because there was very little information. I had my Hockey News on the coffee table, my resource material printed off and I was ready in 2002, until the Oilers announced Niinimaki. While I was shuffling and searching to find Niinimaki (Mr. Google was also in a panic) the tsn panel--the absolute experts--were also scrambling. They did manage to find words like "center" and "Finnish". Once I found something on him, it was not encouraging.

That was the day I began to value the phrase 'risk averse' and am hopeful we'll see more this weekend from the Oilers. 

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

The draft is a crap shoot. Staying away from walkabout picks helps, but drafting in the top 5 is the absolute best way to grab outstanding talent. Can the Oilers trade into the top 5 this weekend?

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 justDOit
June 26 2013, 05:43PM
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Ha! The Finnish scout was high on Niinimaki! Are we sure that wasn't mis-translated? He was high on something.

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#2 Bucknuck
June 26 2013, 05:58PM
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I'll never forget when they traded away from Parise, nor when they picked Ninimaaki, nor when they picked Kelly instead of Doan. That last one really pissed me off.

The Pouliot one didn't bother me as much, because they thought he was undervalued because he played on a poor team. I could understand the move, even though from what I was reading it wasn't the smartest play.

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#3 skinny65
June 26 2013, 06:03PM
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Geez Lowetide, who is that picture of? Yikes, that is one of your best.

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#4 T__Bone88
June 26 2013, 06:10PM
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@Lowetide Within the top 10 picks is there someone who you think might be a surprise riser or a player that would go lower than expected? Every year there is always a player taken at a different spot than expected that surprises the experts.

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#6 T__Bone88
June 26 2013, 06:35PM
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@Lowetide

For some eerie feeling I get a sense if Monahan is gone before the 7th pick the Oilers might draft Horvat and that Lindholm drops out of the top 10 like Forsberg did last year.

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#7 madjam
June 26 2013, 06:44PM
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Canucks want a center adapt at both ends of ice and special teams -Hello Horcoff ! Cost could be Luongo ?

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#9 Smokey
June 26 2013, 06:49PM
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There were indications Forberg would drop do to his apparant low offensive numbers. Lindholm I think is penciled in on many drafts 5-7, and I can't see him dropping.

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#10 TayLordBalls
June 26 2013, 07:08PM
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out of the entire draft pool - they only need to pick a few players that will make it to the NHL.

what's hard about that?

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#11 Digger
June 26 2013, 07:09PM
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Two things that come to mind about Niinimaki:

1 - How different would his pro career had been if he hadn't had that badly broken shoulder in 03/04 that pretty much borked his season (only played 10 games)?

2 - When the Oilers finally got him to North America, apparently his upper body strength was pretty much non-existent. His arm strength was comparable to that of a strung out rock star.

How about this for a trip down memory lane?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/archive/index.php/t-84107.html

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#12 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 07:12PM
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PLEASE DO NOT TRADE DOWN AND TAKE LAZAR

Trade up for Barkov.

Gagner + 7th + both seconds + Marincin for Barkov and Wilson

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#13 Quicksilver ballet
June 26 2013, 07:14PM
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When do the Jersey Devils have till, to let the league know when they'd like to absorb that first rounder penalty they were assessed?

If the guy they want is gone when they're due up, can they opt to accept this penalty in this 2013 draft?

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#14 dawgtoy
June 26 2013, 07:22PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

When do the Jersey Devils have till, to let the league know when they'd like to absorb that first rounder penalty they were assessed?

If the guy they want is gone when they're due up, can they opt to accept this penalty in this 2013 draft?

The draft is in New Jersey. I'd say the chance of that is near zero.

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#15 Sliderule
June 26 2013, 07:25PM
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They have brought in Monahan and Horvat.

My bet is they take Horvat.

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#16 Quicksilver ballet
June 26 2013, 07:28PM
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@dawgtoy

They're down to just this and next summer for options. Have to believe it's a little stronger odds than zero.

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#17 Walter Sobchak
June 26 2013, 07:32PM
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I know there was some talk on twitter about moving up and who would you be willing to trade.

names like Gagner, Petry and Paajarvi were used.

Personally, I would be willing to move Petry and 2014 first round pick for the 5th pick, i'm not sure the 7th needs to be added then.

I still think Gardnier will be an Oiler so Petry is expendable asset.

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#18 Walter Sobchak
June 26 2013, 07:35PM
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dawgtoy wrote:

The draft is in New Jersey. I'd say the chance of that is near zero.

I'd say its pretty good, if I'm a fan and a follower of the NJD I know damn well that the team is pretty much hanging on by a thread.

Next year they could be a lottery team, you want to give that pick away?

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#19 EHH Team
June 26 2013, 07:46PM
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Sliderule wrote:

They have brought in Monahan and Horvat.

My bet is they take Horvat.

If they take Horvat, it had better be after trading down. He is a ridiculous pick at #7

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#20 huskamania
June 26 2013, 07:54PM
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@Mean Machine

Wow that would be nuts he's not Crosby, I am pretty sure Gags is 2nd in pts total in same draft year behind Kane. Draft best at 7 and clean up the slackers and we're back to playoffs

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#21 Bushed
June 26 2013, 07:55PM
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Mact's recent comment about how a skilled player who is maybe not the fastest might still "learn" and "move the dial" for the team worries me.

I hated the choice of Plante from day 1, especially when the scouting reports were crystal clear that mobility was a big issue.

Please learn from that mistake, Oilers. Remember that a puck possession game relies on strong skaters, not players who will need 5 summers of power skating coaches to barely stay in the AHL.

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#22 Bonvie
June 26 2013, 08:02PM
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Mean Machine wrote:

PLEASE DO NOT TRADE DOWN AND TAKE LAZAR

Trade up for Barkov.

Gagner + 7th + both seconds + Marincin for Barkov and Wilson

If you are talking Colin Wilson that would be the type of deal that would be worth trading Gagner for, as I think he is a very good player. Just get another D substituted as I believe when Marincin grows into a man he's going to be a very good NHL Dman.

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#23 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 08:20PM
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huskamania wrote:

Wow that would be nuts he's not Crosby, I am pretty sure Gags is 2nd in pts total in same draft year behind Kane. Draft best at 7 and clean up the slackers and we're back to playoffs

2007 was a pretty weak draft class. Gagner's points are meh considering he has played 6 years already. He has more points than Couture, would you take Gagner over Couture? Probably not.

Gagner is a sub par skater and does not possess defensive acumen. Colin Wilson would slide in to our 2C spot and we wouldn't miss Gagner. Also adds size AND brings all the defensive tools he picked up from Barry Trots.

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#24 They're $hittie
June 26 2013, 08:22PM
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Bonvie wrote:

If you are talking Colin Wilson that would be the type of deal that would be worth trading Gagner for, as I think he is a very good player. Just get another D substituted as I believe when Marincin grows into a man he's going to be a very good NHL Dman.

Ok so we are giving up the most assets and the best player in the trade. WOW. This is an overpay. Barkov looks great (and I think he will be good) but there have been a lot of failed top ten picks. Nothing saying he is guaranteed to be a superstar or play in the NHL.

Wilson is what the oilers need, but not at the price of giving away a better player. Size does not make wilson better. So lets make a modification;

Gagner for Wilson and a 6th rounder

7th and a 2nd rounder, 6th rounder and Gernat for 4th overall.

So to clean it up

Gagner, 7th overall, 2nd rounder, Gernat for Wilson and 4th overall.

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#25 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 08:22PM
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Bonvie wrote:

If you are talking Colin Wilson that would be the type of deal that would be worth trading Gagner for, as I think he is a very good player. Just get another D substituted as I believe when Marincin grows into a man he's going to be a very good NHL Dman.

Yep was referring to Colin Wilson. I believe he was drafted as a centre. Adds some size too.

I would say it would have to be Marincin because that 4th overall pick is at a high premium. Believe me I'd try Musil first, but doubt it happens.

Also now that I think of it, Nashville is pretty good on the blue line, I wonder if they want another forward prospect with skill. Rajala is another consideration.

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#26 They're $hittie
June 26 2013, 08:28PM
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Mean Machine wrote:

2007 was a pretty weak draft class. Gagner's points are meh considering he has played 6 years already. He has more points than Couture, would you take Gagner over Couture? Probably not.

Gagner is a sub par skater and does not possess defensive acumen. Colin Wilson would slide in to our 2C spot and we wouldn't miss Gagner. Also adds size AND brings all the defensive tools he picked up from Barry Trots.

you complain about gagner because he doesnt put up 65 plus points, but you want a center who puts up 30 because he is bigger. How is that a second line center. He is also on a team known for goaltending and defense so whose to say in the oilers system he brings anything more defensively than gagner.

So to get wilson we give up a wack of points to get a guy just because he is bigger but has never done anything to be a 2nd line center.

PEOPLE. MAC T IS COMMITTED TO GAGNER. LIKE IT OR NOT. ONCE HE IS SIGNED HE IS LIKELY TO BE AN OILER FOR THE LONG HAUL. CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS SITE TO OILERSNATION AND NOT TO TOTRADEGAGNERORNOTNATION.

It has become more painful of the same old stuff everyday than it has to have season tickets since 2007. The writers here try to bring fresh articles in and the comments still revert back to the same old crap. To each his own with his opinion but come on it is getting old.

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#27 Thinker
June 26 2013, 08:33PM
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Gagner, hemsky, horcoff, 7th, both seconds,marincin, musil, davidson, gernat, arcobello,mps, n.schultz for fifth overall. Oiler fans are absolutely rediculous with overpays. Toronto fans are the opposite (their team isn't). I can't believe how many holes fans are willing to make in the roster in order to fill one. But don't anybody dar touch the fab five or klefbom. Lets look at deals that make sense for the oilers, not just ones for players of interest regardless of cost.

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#28 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 08:36PM
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They're $hittie wrote:

you complain about gagner because he doesnt put up 65 plus points, but you want a center who puts up 30 because he is bigger. How is that a second line center. He is also on a team known for goaltending and defense so whose to say in the oilers system he brings anything more defensively than gagner.

So to get wilson we give up a wack of points to get a guy just because he is bigger but has never done anything to be a 2nd line center.

PEOPLE. MAC T IS COMMITTED TO GAGNER. LIKE IT OR NOT. ONCE HE IS SIGNED HE IS LIKELY TO BE AN OILER FOR THE LONG HAUL. CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS SITE TO OILERSNATION AND NOT TO TOTRADEGAGNERORNOTNATION.

It has become more painful of the same old stuff everyday than it has to have season tickets since 2007. The writers here try to bring fresh articles in and the comments still revert back to the same old crap. To each his own with his opinion but come on it is getting old.

LOL my point was you can't say Gagner is amazing just because of points. Think of how many chances he gives up when he is on the ice.

That was my point! He brings defensive strategies and positional hockey that he learned from Trots! You don't dump tools you picked up from past coaches. He learned defensive hockey in Nashville hence he brings some of that to Edmonton. Pretty easy concept.

I will agree that he is a bit of a risk but it is more of a stop gap at number two until Barkov comes in, which is likely in a year or so. It doesn't make us worse next year and makes us better long term. Promise you that.

Also, look at the talent Wilson had to play with vs. Gagner.

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#29 RexLibris
June 26 2013, 08:41PM
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Re: the Devils and their window to forfeit a 1st round pick, it has to be 24 hours prior to the draft.

I agree, very little chance of that happening. They ought to have forfeit last year's 29th overall, but obviously it will happen next year.

To compensate I suspect Lamoriello will trade for a 1st rounder.

Would anyone here offer the Oilers' 2014 1st round pick for Henrique? I exclude Larsson because I think we all know that isn't going to happen.

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#30 Bonvie
June 26 2013, 08:47PM
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@They're $hittie

I'm not complaining about Gagner and I don't think mean machine is either. I love Gagner however if you can get Colin Wilson he is the real deal and he had 19 points in 25 games and 35 points in 68 games the year before so I think we could safely say he is at the 50pts per season level and still rising with the offensive talents of the Oilers, and is the real deal he is the Lucic or the Leclair of the now.

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#31 DSF
June 26 2013, 08:51PM
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It really is the time to put to bed the notion that Gagner is the "second best scorer in his draft class".

He isn't.

The only reason he accumulated more total points than others is because he was thrown into the NHL at 18 while other teams bring their prospects along more slowly.

Kane - .951 PPG

Couture - .719 PPG

Voracek - .623 PPG

Gagner - .623 PPG

Pacioretty - .621 PPG

Perron - .582 PPG

JVR - .536 PPG

I expect Pacioretty, Perron (if healthy) and JVR (now that he's playing on a scoring line) will pass Gagner this upcoming season.

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#32 huskamania
June 26 2013, 08:53PM
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What I am saying it's a lot to give up Logan wasn't involved in your original post. I think Barkov will be good but if he was exceptional he would be in the top two conversation. Just my thinking if he was a franchise player I would agree. I have seen Sam fight bigger guys and his heart is such a huge thing to have on a team just don't want to dismiss all the other things he adds besides size. Let's just hope we can get good pick or if Sam is traded we get over trade value for him and not have to give other assets that haven't had a chance. Go Oil

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#33 madjam
June 26 2013, 08:59PM
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Gagner and two second round picks for Crosby or Malkin . Maybe Gagner and one second round pick for Weber ? Lets get down to business here . Gagner as safe as Krueger , if the price is right !

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#34 Smokey
June 26 2013, 09:00PM
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Mean Machine wrote:

PLEASE DO NOT TRADE DOWN AND TAKE LAZAR

Trade up for Barkov.

Gagner + 7th + both seconds + Marincin for Barkov and Wilson

Ouch.

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#35 DSF
June 26 2013, 09:01PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Re: the Devils and their window to forfeit a 1st round pick, it has to be 24 hours prior to the draft.

I agree, very little chance of that happening. They ought to have forfeit last year's 29th overall, but obviously it will happen next year.

To compensate I suspect Lamoriello will trade for a 1st rounder.

Would anyone here offer the Oilers' 2014 1st round pick for Henrique? I exclude Larsson because I think we all know that isn't going to happen.

I would but why would the Devils do this?

Henrique has already performed at the level of a first round pick despite having a diminished second season.

NJ very much needs value contracts as they are working to sign their veterans.

Zubrus took a haircut today to sign for another 2 seasons and Lou is working on Clarkson.

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#36 DSF
June 26 2013, 09:04PM
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Here's a rumour from the Twitterverse tonight that could rock the draft.

Kris Letang to Toronto for a 1st round pick, a roster player and a prospect.

Perhaps Toronto's 1st this year (Pittsburgh doesn't have one), Jake Gardiner and a Marlie.

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#37 Walter Sobchak
June 26 2013, 09:05PM
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MacTavish is going "balls out" at this draft!!

I would not be surprised if the Oilers are not picking at least 5th.

I'm calling 2 picks in the first round!

I'm calling at least two trades

One "Wow" factor trade!....so three trades total!

#lovethedraft!

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#38 DSF
June 26 2013, 09:06PM
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Walter Sobchak wrote:

MacTavish is going "balls out" at this draft!!

I would not be surprised if the Oilers are not picking at least 5th.

I'm calling 2 picks in the first round!

I'm calling at least two trades

One "Wow" factor trade!....so three trades total!

#lovethedraft!

Better lay in some suds buddy...I think you'll be disappointed.

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#39 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 09:07PM
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Smokey wrote:

Ouch.

That's if it is enough.

Sign Lapriere, Gordon, pull the trigger on the Clutterbuck trade. Maybe overpay for Bickell and give him Prust money, all of a sudden our top 9 could be:

Hall Nuge Yak Bickell Barkov Eberle Wilson Gordon/Lapriere Clutterbuck

Wilson could even play top 6 over Bickell or line up in the middle if injury occurs. I would have Wilson in the 2C spot while Barkov does his extra year in Finland. That lineup is a HUGE improvement. Sell Gagner at his peak value.

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#40 Mean Machine
June 26 2013, 09:10PM
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DSF wrote:

Here's a rumour from the Twitterverse tonight that could rock the draft.

Kris Letang to Toronto for a 1st round pick, a roster player and a prospect.

Perhaps Toronto's 1st this year (Pittsburgh doesn't have one), Jake Gardiner and a Marlie.

For some reason I don't feel that is enough. Staal got 8th overall, Sutter (roster player) and Dumoulin (an A prospect). I don't doubt Toronto made that offer, but I think a team like Carolina could do better:

Gleason, 5th overall, Rask for Letang.

Haven't checked cap geek though

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#41 Walter Sobchak
June 26 2013, 09:18PM
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DSF wrote:

Better lay in some suds buddy...I think you'll be disappointed.

Probably, just trying to psyche myself into thinking the Oilers have turned the corner with all this MacTavish talk!

At least one trade?........*C'mon give me that!

*Spits beer out of mouth*

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#42 Walter Sobchak
June 26 2013, 09:30PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Re: the Devils and their window to forfeit a 1st round pick, it has to be 24 hours prior to the draft.

I agree, very little chance of that happening. They ought to have forfeit last year's 29th overall, but obviously it will happen next year.

To compensate I suspect Lamoriello will trade for a 1st rounder.

Would anyone here offer the Oilers' 2014 1st round pick for Henrique? I exclude Larsson because I think we all know that isn't going to happen.

IIRC NHL numbers had a great article on the Devils.

Paraphrasing ( to lazy to go searching for the article) basically the Devils are the oldest team in the NHL with a poor group of forwards.

The Devils keeping the 29th pick was a poor decision, keeping the 8th pick was fine but keeping the pick in this draft is where the risk is huge, keeping this years pick even at 9 when all the numbers indicate the Devils will be worse next year is a massive risk especially when next years draft is suppose to be deeper!

The Devils talent pool is not at all that good, and the chances of retaining Clarkson are low, but even if they do its not a huge win.

Lou knows this, if he doesn't trade this pick he's making a huge mistake, even if he doesn't have a 3rd or a 5th pick.

He's in a pickle.

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#43 robinrussia
June 26 2013, 09:40PM
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LT Evelina Chiang.... from my neck of the woods. Well done.

I'd have picked her over Ninimaki

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#44 Digger
June 26 2013, 09:40PM
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DSF wrote:

It really is the time to put to bed the notion that Gagner is the "second best scorer in his draft class".

He isn't.

The only reason he accumulated more total points than others is because he was thrown into the NHL at 18 while other teams bring their prospects along more slowly.

Kane - .951 PPG

Couture - .719 PPG

Voracek - .623 PPG

Gagner - .623 PPG

Pacioretty - .621 PPG

Perron - .582 PPG

JVR - .536 PPG

I expect Pacioretty, Perron (if healthy) and JVR (now that he's playing on a scoring line) will pass Gagner this upcoming season.

Of Patches/Perron/JVR, it seems to me that Patches is the only one with even a halfway realistic chance of surpassing Gagner in PPG by the end of next season. If he can manage another 65 point season while staying healthy (and assuming Gagner doesn't himself improve on his PPG totals over a full season), then yeah he'd do it.

Perron and JVR are IMO big longshots, they'd have to put in 80 point seasons (for both, that would be way more than they've ever done before) to even have a chance. To me that's not a bet with good odds.

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#45 DSF
June 26 2013, 09:42PM
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Mean Machine wrote:

For some reason I don't feel that is enough. Staal got 8th overall, Sutter (roster player) and Dumoulin (an A prospect). I don't doubt Toronto made that offer, but I think a team like Carolina could do better:

Gleason, 5th overall, Rask for Letang.

Haven't checked cap geek though

Gleason has nowhere near the value that Gardiner does.

Gleason was the #5 defenseman on the Carolina team by TOI/G.

And, for the cap strapped Penguins, Gardiner at $1.1M would be much, much more attractive than Gleason at $4M.

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#46 DSF
June 26 2013, 09:49PM
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Digger wrote:

Of Patches/Perron/JVR, it seems to me that Patches is the only one with even a halfway realistic chance of surpassing Gagner in PPG by the end of next season. If he can manage another 65 point season while staying healthy (and assuming Gagner doesn't himself improve on his PPG totals over a full season), then yeah he'd do it.

Perron and JVR are IMO big longshots, they'd have to put in 80 point seasons (for both, that would be way more than they've ever done before) to even have a chance. To me that's not a bet with good odds.

You have to remember that part of Perron and JVR catching up to Gagner involves playoff games.

While Gagner got the early push, Perron and JVR are on playoff calibre teams.

JVR lead the Leafs in playoff scoring at 1.00 PPG. The kid is breaking out.

Perron, with the addition of some high end forwards like Ty Rattie and a full season of Tarasenko should benefit from a higher scoring STL team.

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#47 Thinker
June 26 2013, 10:42PM
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@DSF

Seven game point streak? Thats unheard of, sign him to Crosby money, sell the farm, superstar in the making.

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#48 DSF
June 26 2013, 11:01PM
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Thinker wrote:

Seven game point streak? Thats unheard of, sign him to Crosby money, sell the farm, superstar in the making.

He also scored 18 goals in the regular season.

Gagner managed 14.

JVR is signed for the next 5 years at $4.25M.

Gagner wants $5M.

No brainer.

See you Sammy!

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#49 madjam
June 26 2013, 11:12PM
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Whitney , Horcoff , Hemsky apparently gone or going -not to mention all the others . What have we replaced them all with ? Any upgrades or personnel to fill their assets no matter how vast or small ? We did this only a few years ago and created monster holes that still remain . Just don't throw away your assets no matter how small for more liabilities .

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#50 Supernova
June 26 2013, 11:27PM
Trash it!
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EHH Team wrote:

If they take Horvat, it had better be after trading down. He is a ridiculous pick at #7

Horvat is not far fetched at 7. Buffalo and Dallas are behind the oilers both have admitted they want a Center, if they fail to move up, Horvat will likely be gone.

Like it or not that is a way the draft works, teams are always trying to gauge what the teams before them or after them are doing.

If we did trade down to say 13. Horvat would likely be gone, if he is their guy than he is their guy. Doesn't really matter if he is the 15th best player if 3 teams are willing to spend a top 10 on him. That means he is top 10.

Believe me I would love it if they could trade back and add a pick and still get him but don't think that is possible.

Some teams have probably fallen in love with both Horvat and Lazar because they are almost sure fire many hundred of game NHLers. You might not win the draft but you certainly keep your job.

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